Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

[SNusa]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

Enrico: Your summary "echoes" my exact thoughts of "yesteryear." ~ The one exception is the "misses of important features."
(I've never worked with File Maker, although it was a contender years back when Alpha's feature set originally "chose me.")

Possibly these features are there, but you have not "uncovered" them (yet) due to a5's depth and organization? ~ I'm curious: What are the missing features that FM has but a5 does not?

Note: If you dig into the desktop nooks and crannies with an ice-pick (as I have done), you will encounter numerous anomalies/unresolved bugs. Eventually you will develop a "feel of what is going to go wrong, along with why, and even a way to get around it. ~ I've always "fought" for the notion that: "It doesn't have to/shouldn't be like this." (A lot of nooks and crannies within the a5 code could & would benefit from a little "polishing.")

It never fails to amaze me how so many other developers become defensive of this, and take my posts as being negative!
Am I complaining? I suppose (in a way) I am. ~ But it's for the common benefit of ALL users, and even the Alpha Software, in the "long haul."

(Besides, someone has to do it.) ~ Many forum members will (ironically) be pleased to know that I've predetermined to (try and avoid) becoming involved like this when "the ice-pick" comes out on the web side. (I'll take the easy road, and try to "put on the blinders.") ~ Which IMHO is the only alternative solution/practice/path, which so many others have presumably chosen to follow!)

I just like things to be "spot-on." My downfall with all software (and programming) stems from this belief: "Unless it's bug free, it's seldom good enough (for me.)" (Which I know is impractical at best in the "software world.") ~ Nevertheless, it's a good thing that the "chip makers" (Intel/AMD/etc.) along with the firmware developers shame my "point of view", isn't it!)

[getaguru]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

Possibly these features are there, but you have not "uncovered" them (yet) due to a5's depth and organization? ~ I'm curious: What are the missing features that FM has but a5 does not?

well, I start saying that the frustration for missing features drops drastically when I stopped using scritpmaker and I started coding manually. On the fly, I can tell you that I was bewildered by the missing of flow controls for the scripts, in other words there's no way to implement a loop, or a serious "if than else" without writing code. Ah! maybe you cannot sense this 'cos you are from USA, but you cannot personalize many controls that just speak english. ES: you can format a boolean with words "yes" "no" or "true" "false". well, maybe I would like to format "si" "no", "vero" "falso", "pagato" "in sospeso", "maggiorenne" "minorenne", etc...
Ah! (2) if you want to put a lookup combo-box in a form (pay attention: combo-box, not edit-combo-box) you have to code dozens of lines... (basically, you must embed an xdialog in the form with all the code to access the lookup table).
These were just the first 2 things that come to my mind.

Note: If you dig into the desktop nooks and crannies with an ice-pick (as I have done), you will encounter numerous anomalies/unresolved bugs. Eventually you will develop a "feel of what is going to go wrong, along with why, and even a way to get around it.

This is my way doing, too.
Better, this is the only possible way if you want to be productive with A5.

And all this strengthens my point of view about the neglected marketing weight of desktop-side.

Bye! E.

[mronck]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

..... I was bewildered by the missing of flow controls for the scripts, in other words there's no way to implement a loop, or a serious "if than else" without writing code. .......

Fortunately, that statement is simply incorrect. If you look for flow controls for scripts to be used without code, look for the "Branching" category in the action script category selection box (left) and you will find several related commands as "Branch command", "Goto label" and "Insert label" with which you can make perfect loops and everything else you need for making all sorts of script flows when combined with conditions.

[SNusa]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

I hope Enrico returns to see your reply Marcel! ~ (From all my research & experience, I had doubts that a5 was missing features presently available in FileMaker.) ~ I don't recall that ever being a valid & substantiated complaint from anyone.....

Seems like "one's mind is about the only limiting factor with regards to using a5!" (As I see it: "The sky is pretty much the limit, otherwise!")
~Which undoubtedly is one of the extremely beneficial "attributes" which both defines (and stands out as) a major plus for the a5 "platform!"

[getaguru]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

Well, actually, you are right, using labels you can create loops.
I remind it from the time of my Commodore 64, when I used to have fun with basic and the "goto" command.
Time passed and right now when you talk about flow control you have some more powerful tools, like for-next, repeat-until, do-while, select-case, if-than-else just to report the bases.
All these are fortunately implemented in the A5 Xbasic.
Unfortunately there's no trace of them in the scriptmaker tool.
Sorry for my imprecision :-)
E.

[mronck]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

It is a thing that comes back often in life: if you are not willing to throw in the effort, you won't get back the optimal result as well. For every product there is a learning curve. Sometimes more steep then other times. In case of Alpha you will pretty soon start working on a hybrid basis with xbasic and action scripting, and pretty soon after that xbasic will become more important then action scripting all together. It's not that A5 is perfect (what ever is?) but it can be an amazing tool once you get the hang of it. Making bold statements before you do though, is generally not the wisest thing....

With respect to your last remark: you can create your own tools by making them into UDF's or stuff examples in your library and use them from there if things are not in the action scripting.
Also, inline xbasic gives you the opportunity to embed pieces of xbasic in the action scripting... and you are already on your way to hybrid use of the both of them....

[Mike Wilson]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

Enrico,
The Action Script (AS) coding in A5 is quite robust. Yes, it also produces verbose code, but necessary to cover all the bases. I used AS for a long time (with complex loops and if-then methods) and slowly, through viewing the constructs of that code produced through AS, became acquinted with xbasic and xdialog. Without that Action Script coding system, many of us (me at the top), would not have been able to learn xbasic and how to write code manually. And I still use it to get me started much of the time.

[getaguru]

Re: Desktop IS NOT DEAD! (Forum activity reinforces this!)

@Marcel:
I agree 100% with your words about learning curve, action scripting and Xbasic.
I can agree just because right now I have turned to the right side, dropping the scripting, creating my functions and starting to be much more productive.
And believe it or no, sometimes I think to myself as a wise man. I don't want to point my finger now, but really wasn't me to cast bold statement, I simply replied in a corteous way to a corteous question.
Peace, Enrico

@Mike:
same way for me.
I repeat: it was not my intention to dispute against AS benefit. But its role as a main and complete system to develop application is really questionable. that's all!