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v12 Release Notes

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    Re: v12 Release Notes

    I am excited about v12 and what it will have to offer to desktop users, the desktop of the future along with mobile and web.
    TYVM :) kenn

    Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

    Comment


      Re: v12 Release Notes

      Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
      A few points to help answer questions

      1) V11 will remain on the market after v12 ships

      2) V12 is NOT just about mobile - the Desktop web and mobile is the focus -- check out this blog article we wrote in January to see why

      3) Desktop users will benefit by v12 because of improvements in xbasic, reporting, richer/more powerful components that can be embedded on a windows desktop
      (http://alphasoftware.net/using-web-c...n-development/)

      4) The desktop runtime will continue to be offered in v12 and if for some reason you dont renew your subscription your customers will still be able to run your windows desktop apps even if you have not renewed

      5) Browser based desktop apps built in Alpha Five are now very powerful and very fast - ask Chad Brown - who is the IT director of a 13 retail store Bell Canada franchise.
      He has a desktop app built in a browser that is super fast and very powerful
      Richard,

      From your blog:
      ...the tool also needs to be able to build web applications that run on desktops and laptops!
      Isn't this tantamount to saying that with V12 the desktop as we know it (not web based) is dead as far as Alpha Software is concerned? If so, good to know, if not good to be true (or so it seems to me). Also, unless you fix some bugs in V11 you can't be serious about continuing to sell it, can you?

      Raymond Lyons

      Comment


        Re: v12 Release Notes

        See post #81 in this thread.

        Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
        Isn't this tantamount to saying that with V12 the desktop as we know it (not web based) is dead as far as Alpha Software is concerned? If so, good to know, if not good to be true (or so it seems to me). Also, unless you fix some bugs in V11 you can't be serious about continuing to sell it, can you? Raymond Lyons
        That's exactly what he is saying and he did say v11 will remain on the market. That being the case, my guess is they will continue to address bugs, at least those wher the code will allow. It's my understanding that the current desktop contains some 3rd party code and as such they may not be able to fix some bugs because they do not have authority to fix that code. That, in itself, is a major reason to let the current desktop fade into the sunset.
        TYVM :) kenn

        Knowing what you can achieve will not become reality until you imagine and explore.

        Comment


          Re: v12 Release Notes

          v12 will continue to have desktop capability

          The areas of improvement as I mentioned are in xbasic, powerful enhancement to reporting and more powerful web components that can be used on the desktop

          If those improvements are useful and appealing then moving to v12 makes sense.
          Richard Rabins
          Co Chairman
          Alpha Software

          Comment


            Re: v12 Release Notes

            Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
            v12 will continue to have desktop capability

            The areas of improvement as I mentioned are in xbasic, powerful enhancement to reporting and more powerful web components that can be used on the desktop

            If those improvements are useful and appealing then moving to v12 makes sense.
            Richard, I guess I am dense because I still don't fully understand. Are you saying V12 will still have forms and so on (essentially, say, V10.5 or V11 on the desktop side) but also more xbasic, reporting and lost of "web components that can (now) be used on the desktop" where "desktop" = not browser based desktop? If so, what would be the point of still selling V11? That is, will the V12 "desktop" have to be browser based? Thanks for any clarification.

            Raymond Lyons

            Comment


              Re: v12 Release Notes

              I will commend Richard on being up so late.

              Report enhancements means I can draw a line 25 inches long and print it continuous like my 10 year old Crystal reports? Yes I am pushing it. Remember, I am up past 12 too.
              Dave Mason
              [email protected]
              Skype is dave.mason46

              Comment


                Re: v12 Release Notes

                Originally posted by Raymond Lyons View Post
                Richard, I guess I am dense because I still don't fully understand. Are you saying V12 will still have forms and so on (essentially, say, V10.5 or V11 on the desktop side) but also more xbasic, reporting and lost of "web components that can (now) be used on the desktop" where "desktop" = not browser based desktop? If so, what would be the point of still selling V11? That is, will the V12 "desktop" have to be browser based? Thanks for any clarification.

                Raymond Lyons
                Ted Giles stated (somewhere) that the desktop is still there in v.12. (He's playing with the betas, I am not. Still too many bugs with the "non-betas" to even contemplate digging into the new stuff IMO.)

                PS: It's good to know that there are others (like Cal & Raymond) who both acknowledge v.11's buggy code & the benefits of "polishing" it! Bugs may be trivial to seasoned developers, but for newbies (like I was not so long ago), they add up and can turn into "deal breakers." ~ One things' for certain: Without all the bugs, I would have learned at a much faster rate. Way too much time wasted trying to figure "what went wrong", "a work-around", and "how to avoid it in the future." (Once you realize it's the software and not the user causing the issues.)

                ~Not to mention all the time it takes to document and submit the bugs. And when you take this time (as the customer/subscriber) only to get either ignored, or have a "pacifier stuck in your mouth." This type of response certainly doesn't build customer satisfaction & loyalty. ~ To be honest, it generates resentment. It's also why I gave up reporting them and have little interest in the betas..... (Read Cal's post #16 below. I think it's how many of us feel.)
                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                Comment


                  Re: v12 Release Notes

                  Robert

                  You talk about bugs in version 11. I am not saying that v11 is bug free. That would be absurd - no software of the richness of Alpha Five is bug free.
                  I can however state that the level of bugs (based on comments to us from people who have switched from Access, Foxpro, Delphi and other tools) is well below alternatives.

                  I also want to state that we do take bugs and bug reports seriously, but it does take two to Tango and I hope as a professional you realize that for us to investigate a bug, we need all the information requested in the bug reporting section of Alpha Five.

                  I wanted to also make sure you received this from Jerry Brightbill from March 20th. Jerry devoted about 2 days researching the items that you submitted as bugs and wrote you this reply.

                  "Jerry Brightbill
                  Mar 20 (10 days ago)

                  to Robert, Selwyn, me
                  Robert

                  We spent considerable time re-examining and investigating all of the bug reports you have sent in since April 2012. Based on the reports from April / May of 2012, it appears all of the bugs from that time period were either resolved or determined to not be bugs.

                  One issue related to scroll bars and scrolling in your set.

                  However,you can restructure your sets (by inverting them) so that your one-to-many links become one-to-one links, and then browsing will work fine.

                  Building reverse sets is a common developer technique. There are many message board threads on reverse sets and where and how they can be used.

                  In the sample provided, the set “combinedcustfobs” can be reversed with "points_tv01" as the upper parent, "keyfob_tv01" as a child linked one-to-one, and "customer_tv01" linked one to one to "keyfob_tv01". This set will scroll properly and is much faster and efficient. A set built in this manner is attached. In this case, there were orphaned child records (no parent), so a filter had to be added to the browse to filter out all records without a customer record.

                  We further examined all of the reports from January 2013. That analysis is in the attached Word document. After examining all of the reports, we could not identify any bugs that are unresolved. Most of the issues reported appeared to be normal behavior and the problems were from misunderstandings concerning how various features behave. The Word document provides more detailed explanations on the features and their behavior."

                  Richard Rabins
                  Co Chairman
                  Alpha Software

                  Comment


                    Re: v12 Release Notes

                    So Richard;

                    You're implying that bugs like the one in the attachment is considered normal behavior?
                    It's one example of building a button for a browse. It's a current capture I just created this morning.
                    At present, there's no way to build a complex button unless you ignore the preview and "know" what you're doing.
                    And although the "Enable Expression feature" (which wasn't used here) does work when you're generating the button & previewing it... Ironically the setting is completely ignored on the browse.... (just further supporting my position)

                    It's one of the "more simple ones" to exemplify, but I believe it gets the point across. The bugs I encounter have nothing to do with "user error." They are bugs, plain and simple. Many of which I never received any response from "[email protected] and/or Cian etc..... ~ And without any bug tracking support (or responses from bugs@), reporting bugs has become (largely) a self defeating endeavor in futility.....

                    As for this bug example: Notice how the button renders properly, yet if you didn't know how to use this button tool "correctly", and ignored the display error.... You'd never get the button built correctly in the first place.... I can assure you, the other bugs are as real as this one, and I also know some of the others have not bee fixed as you indicated!

                    If importing and exporting an .a5pkg (from within the same computer from one database to another) is supposed to result in having duplicate objects added to the wrong (not even open database) I don't know what to tell you. ~ Same goes for duplicating a mapped table. if doing so is supposed to result in "an empty regardless of the settings is considered user error...."

                    I believe the following example (simple to duplicate) speaks for itself. I could go on.....
                    Snap 2013-03-30 at 07.58.47.png

                    PS: I did learn about the "many to first inversion" method which did solve one the browse navigation issues. (instead of un-selecting "parent record only" for the browse. (Providing this workaround is used with a mapped table instead of a set as constrained by the makeup of the layout set.)
                    Last edited by SNusa; 03-30-2013, 08:59 AM.
                    Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                    It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                    RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                    Comment


                      Re: v12 Release Notes

                      Originally posted by Richard Rabins
                      4) The runtime will continue to be offered in v12 and if for some reason you dont renew your subscription your customers will still be able to run your desktop app even if you have not renews
                      Richard,

                      Are you stating, by implication, that v12 developer will cease to function if one's subscription expires?
                      Peter
                      AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                      [email protected]
                      https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                      Comment


                        Re: v12 Release Notes

                        Robert this indeed is a display error.

                        I did in fact say the following in my post. I never implied that the product is bug free.

                        I am not saying that v11 is bug free. That would be absurd - no software of the richness of Alpha Five is bug free.
                        I can however state that the level of bugs (based on comments to us from people who have switched from Access, Foxpro, Delphi and other tools) is well below alternatives.

                        I also want to state that we do take bugs and bug reports seriously, but it does take two to Tango and I hope as a professional you realize that for us to investigate a bug, we need all the information requested in the bug reporting section of Alpha Five.
                        Richard Rabins
                        Co Chairman
                        Alpha Software

                        Comment


                          Re: v12 Release Notes

                          Some years ago I had an accounts package that had to be updated annually, if this was not done then no further data could be entered in for the new fiscal year. Yes this did have a fee attached to it and if it was not paid, no update. This was in fact like a subscription, so nothing new here.

                          Now the way I see Alpha, it is my toolbox. In this box are a number of different tools which I use for my customers needs. I can can carry on using the tools from this box, until such time as it is not practical to do so. What must I do, either (1) buy the latest toolbox, (2) get another toolbox from a different supplier, or (3) stop building applications altogether. Personally I would go for option 1. Now if that means I can pay off for this new toolbox and have extra tools added during the year, to me that is a no brainer. Why not go for option 2? For me, I have been with Alpha for nearly 20 years and have been very happy with all the help and friends I have made from the company and this forum, I'm not about to start over with another product and company. Option 3, well that comes to all of us sooner or later.

                          I cannot see how it would be possible for Alpha to stop a developer from functioning if one's subscription expires. Maybe MS or Google might be able to do that, IMHO it would not be in Alpha's interest to pull that stunt.
                          Regards
                          Keith Hubert
                          Alpha Guild Member
                          London.
                          KHDB Management Systems
                          Skype = keith.hubert


                          For your day-to-day Needs, you Need an Alpha Database!

                          Comment


                            Re: v12 Release Notes

                            Originally posted by Richard Rabins View Post
                            Robert this indeed is a display error.

                            I did in fact say the following in my post. I never implied that the product is bug free.

                            I am not saying that v11 is bug free. That would be absurd - no software of the richness of Alpha Five is bug free.
                            I can however state that the level of bugs (based on comments to us from people who have switched from Access, Foxpro, Delphi and other tools) is well below alternatives.

                            I also want to state that we do take bugs and bug reports seriously, but it does take two to Tango and I hope as a professional you realize that for us to investigate a bug, we need all the information requested in the bug reporting section of Alpha Five.
                            Hi Richard;

                            My response to you was in reference to your statement which indicated the bugs (that have not been addressed & corrected) were [likely] due to a misunderstanding of Alpha's functionality. ~ Not in my case, not usually anyways. (regardless of what you may be led to assume/believe)
                            It's worth noting that: Because there is no "bug tracking" publicly exposed to user, combined with the fact that responses are not coming back from the bug reports.... To know what was fixed and what has been ignored is futile. It already consumes a ton of time to properly diagnose & report bugs. ~ Not to mention the message it sends back. And under this scenario, we (as loyal paying customers) are "left completely in the dark." (Not to mention that it also sends the message "don't bother reporting bugs" and that our efforts are not even appreciated.)

                            At the very least, if you wanted to disseminate information regarding fixed bugs, they should ALL be listed on the Pre-Release page here..... They are not. In fact, I've never seen a single one of my bugs (fixed or otherwise) even mentioned!

                            PS: I believe I'm more than qualified to be taken seriously when a bug is submitted. I've earned that through a lot of hard work & commitment. (I know my limitations too.) ~ It took quite a large commitment to get to where I presently am on the desktop side. Consequently, I am well aware when I encounter a debilitating bug. And fortunately, I'm at the point where I can "usually" find both the cause & a workaround. (If I could fix them, I'd do that too.) ~ I firmly believe that many "newbies" (as I was not too long ago) would have simply "given up." (I know for a fact that many do. They have contacted me.)

                            "As determined as I am, I chose to take out the ice picks and 'keep digging.' ~ The more you dig, the more you find. The more you find, the more you learn....."
                            Last edited by SNusa; 03-30-2013, 09:38 AM.
                            Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                            It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                            RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                            Comment


                              Re: v12 Release Notes

                              Originally posted by Keith Hubert View Post
                              I cannot see how it would be possible for Alpha to stop a developer from functioning if one's subscription expires. Maybe MS or Google might be able to do that, IMHO it would not be in Alpha's interest to pull that stunt.
                              Agreed!
                              Peter
                              AlphaBase Solutions, LLC

                              [email protected]
                              https://www.alphabasesolutions.com


                              Comment


                                Re: v12 Release Notes

                                Originally posted by Keith Hubert View Post
                                Some years ago I had an accounts package that had to be updated annually, if this was not done then no further data could be entered in for the new fiscal year. Yes this did have a fee attached to it and if it was not paid, no update. This was in fact like a subscription, so nothing new here.....

                                I cannot see how it would be possible for Alpha to stop a developer from functioning if one's subscription expires. Maybe MS or Google might be able to do that, IMHO it would not be in Alpha's interest to pull that stunt.
                                ~My thoughts exactly!

                                Nevertheless, the way things have been presented, it appears as if Alpha is "testing the waters" considering whether this is a viable possibility.
                                (If they make this "assumption", they are certainly having "visions of grandeur.")

                                I for one am not against a subscription. (I've had one since day 1.) "You continue to pay, you continue to get [more]..." ~ But it must be affordable, and it really isn't for most. Not if it's a "forced subscription without stand-alone options." Every bit as important: Expectations of subscribers must be met (particularly on the bug support side). ~ My biggest gripe over the past year.

                                Imagine if windows had a policy whereby you had to pay yearly or your computer ceased to function..... Everyone would "own a Mac", or run a Linux "distro" instead. (I can't state it any clearer than this.) :wink":
                                Last edited by SNusa; 03-30-2013, 09:58 AM.
                                Robert T. ~ "I enjoy manipulating data... just not my data."
                                It's all about the "framework." (I suppose an "a5-induced" hard drive crash is now in order?)
                                RELOADED: My current posting activity here merely represents a "Momentary Lapse Of Reason."

                                Comment

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