Question on Server Set Up

[cdibi]

We are running Alpha Desktop on one of our desktop computers and sharing the database within our business. I want to set up a server where our other location can connect through a vpn and access the database. I don't have much experience with a server setup. Is it possible to set it up where that location would be given access to the database files using Alpha but unable to browse the files or folder using my computer? Want to make sure that these files are protected from anyone doing any harm to them or copying them.

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

You should look at TSPlus.

I use it to setup the client machine to only run Alpha on the server.

[Bob Whitaker]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

Al can any Windows 7 to 10 PC act as a server using Tsplus or does it have to be a proper Windows Server ?

You are quite right about using TS or RDP rather VPN - generally found Alpha and VPN to be very sluggish.

Bob

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

Al can any Windows 7 to 10 PC act as a server using Tsplus or does it have to be a proper Windows Server ?

You are quite right about using TS or RDP rather VPN - generally found Alpha and VPN to be very sluggish.

Bob

Bob

Yes any machine can be used.

I've found that actual servers are better at it than a client machine acting like a server.

I think a server will support more users.

The VPN adds a tunnel of security to the connection and another layer which can affect performance. What price do we pay for security?

Did your VPN setup connect to data on the server while alpha was on the client? That would be really slow.
Connecting a client alpha to a remote server data would be slow with or without VPN.

I'm using a VPN with RDP to connect to some customer machines and it works great. The RDP is a window to the server with alpha and the data on the remote machine. No constant transfer of data between remotely connected machines.

[DaveM]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

From experience:
when placing the whole app on a server and unning on a user machine, be sure the server can handle the load.
What I check is memory and disk space+speed.
memory for first user has to be 4 g because it may not be only thing running.
then 1 gig for each of the other users expected.

10 users may use 13 gig of memory.

call this an opinion and others may know better.

My last install like this had 64gig memory on server with 11 users. Running great.
size of app can create more need as well.

[cdibi]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

I'm a little confused on the best way to set up can someone explain in laymen's terms.

Our needs are fairly simple. We need to have 4-5 people accessing the database from within the building and one from outside the building. What is the best way to set this up? My thought was to put the data files on the server and then have each computer running the runtime desktop software accessing it?

[Ronald Anusiewicz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

I found the following in the manual that comes with the runtime application. You may want to go through the manual picking out what you need.
The hardest part of getting alpha running across a network is setting up user permissions. The process is really quite simple.

Multi User

If you are installing a multi user application, the installation involves multiple steps– installing the application files on a shared server, installing the Runtime files on each user’s machine and (optionally) installing a “bootstrap” application on each user’s machine (if your application uses Network Optimization).
IMPORTANT You should install the Alpha Five Runtime on each user’s local machine. DO NOT INSTALL A SINGLE COPY OF THE RUNTIME ON A SERVER FOR USERS TO SHARE FROM THEIR DESKTOPS. Doing so could result in serious performance degradation.
IMPORTANT Each user must have read/write access to the folder on the server where the application files are installed.
For multi user applications, you should consider taking advantage of Alpha Five’s Network Optimization feature. Applications that run on a network will run much more quickly if you use Network Optimization.
Using Network Optimization
If you want your application to use Network Optimization (recommended), then follow these steps:
1. Install the application files on a shared folder on the server.
2. Install the Runtime files on each user’s machine.

Regarding the remote login, there are a number of ways to achieve this. The best way really has to do with the hardware you have to do the job.
1. If you have a server with the appropriate resources, TSPlus may be your best option. (You need to research cost)
2. If you have a spare computer already connected to the network, gotoMyPC may be a really good option. (Monthly fee)
3. If you have a static IP address and a spare computer like number 2, Microsoft's built in RDP may be a good option. (Free)

It all comes down to your available resources.

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

I'm a little confused on the best way to set up can someone explain in laymen's terms.

Our needs are fairly simple. We need to have 4-5 people accessing the database from within the building and one from outside the building. What is the best way to set this up? My thought was to put the data files on the server and then have each computer running the runtime desktop software accessing it?

I'd suggest you have the data and runtime on one computer ( a server ) in the building and use RDP or TSPlus to connect the other computers to it.

Setup each user on the windows server and have them connect to the server with their own username and password.

[DaveM]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

BOTH above are very doable.
running the whole app and runtime on the designated machine/server take a bit different and requires lots of memory when users are many
Most of my installs for clients used a shadowed runtime which hardly ever fails and as Al said, have the remote client go through a user computr instead of direct to server.

[cdibi]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

There are some conflicting thoughts above.

The posted manual excerpt above says not to have everyone connect to the server using the runtime on the server. Some of you are saying to do that??? Right now we have a desktop machine with 3-4 others in the same building sharing the data file but running alpha on their own machine. We are still on XP using V9 right now. I need to buy some new equipment and upgrade Alpha so I can do anything at this point. Just want to find the best way that runs the smoothest. We are having frequent freeze ups right now which is pushing me to change what we are doing.

The other question is which version to upgrade to, 11 or 12?

I appreciate all the input here as I do not do this for a profession, but do enjoy doing it.

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

There are some conflicting thoughts above.

The posted manual excerpt above says not to have everyone connect to the server using the runtime on the server. Some of you are saying to do that???

Are you talking about this?

Multi User If you are installing a multi user application, the installation involves multiple steps - installing the application files on a shared server, installing the Runtime files on each user’s machine and (optionally) installing a “bootstrap” application on each user’s machine (if your application uses Network Optimization). IMPORTANT You should install the Alpha Five Runtime on each user’s local machine. DO NOT INSTALL A SINGLE COPY OF THE RUNTIME ON A SERVER FOR USERS TO SHARE FROM THEIR DESKTOPS. Doing so could result in serious performance degradation.

If so, it is correct in that you need to have an appropriate server to handle the load. (Also probably written awhile back.... before we discovered the RDP/TSPlus type advantage.)

It is also why I don't recommend a faux server - ie a desktop machine as a standalone server. Never send a kid to do an adult's work.

Right now we have a desktop machine with 3-4 others in the same building sharing the data file but running alpha on their own machine. We are still on XP using V9 right now. I need to buy some new equipment and upgrade Alpha so I can do anything at this point. Just want to find the best way that runs the smoothest. We are having frequent freeze ups right now which is pushing me to change what we are doing.

The other question is which version to upgrade to, 11 or 12?

I appreciate all the input here as I do not do this for a profession, but do enjoy doing it.

If you are only doing desktop, you can do either. Depends on what license you can get from Alpha if you haven't already purchased one.

[DaveM]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

The most accepted way is to :
server for data and runtime on each user computer and use shadowed table setup having your remote access by way of a user computer.

[Al Buchholz]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

Chris

So now you have 2 choices to try.

I've tried both and have been more successful with the server based thin client model.

Dave suggests the shadowed thicker client model. I've replaced those systems especially when clients are connected on a wireless or remote network. Sporadic network issues can cause corruption of data and indices.

The shadowed thick model does improve performance over a non shadowed thick client - especially at startup.

The thin client gives the best performance until you overload the server. Then you get more memory and a faster CPU on the server. Or start farming the server into servers.

One client is currently running a Xeon 3.30 GHz processor with 64 GB of memory with 2012 Essentials (64 bit OS) and supports 12 users running Alpha and Approach ( I know really old) with most users scattered around the plant on wireless connections. All the index problems are gone and performance is great.

They tried the server model with a desktop computer as the server and it was better than the shadowed model they were using a few years ago, but found that the real server was by far the best solution.

I've become more convinced to use that model when another client replaced Alpha with a canned package in the 5 digit range that used RDP exclusively for their MSSQL based system. I had thought a MSSQL system would run fine in a thick client mode, but they didn't.

Did I mention that application maintenance is easier on the thin client? It's all in one place.

As I mentioned previously, the runtime document should be updated, but probably won't be.

So like a lot of things there are various options from multiple sources. So choose wisely.

[DaveM]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

I have 10 user on the thin client model and doing very well. Had to change the way of data entry a bit. server is 2012 and 64 gig memory, 2.1 ghz

have 40 users one shadode system and also working well. server is 2008r plenty of memory and 3.2 ghz

2 solid choices

[cdibi]

Re: Question on Server Set Up

Thanks for the help guys and also the conversation Al. I have built a server online with Dell and what some opinions of whether this is powerful enough for 6-10 users. There are a lot of options and I do not have a lot of knowledge on servers.

Thanks,

Chris

Dell Server Configuration.jpg