The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Any relation is a two-way road. The relation between Alpha and its customers is not much different. To make it work, there have to be efforts from both sides. You can't say "I am not doing this for Alpha because they don't pay me" and at the same time ask from Alpha that they do the work to land you your customers, now can you? It needs to be 'give and take' all the way to make it work mutually beneficially.

Independent developers however are not the majority of Alpha's clients as I suspect. This is only a small group. So all things have to be in balance.

Like in any relationship, often "communications" are crucial to keep the engine going. And on that subject there is room for improvement to be found on both ends of the road as I see it.

Point is, independent developers are looking for customers that will give them projects to work on, or that might want to purchase a turn-key solution from them. Those customers are "result driven". They look for "a health care solution" rather then "a project developed with Alpha Five". Hence, chances that such customers will look on the internet based on the development platform are pretty slim. So there is only "so much" Alpha can do with regards to any referrals. I do not believe they have that many to give out anyway. Besides that, don't forget that Alpha Software also offers a whole host of "professional services" of which one is (and I quote):

Our certified Alpha Five v11 development team will develop, deploy and maintain your mission critical business applications in the fastest, most efficient and cost-effective manner possible.

Which means that Alpha Software is an independent developer itself and that seems to take away from the possibility of delivering leads in the first place. So I personally do not believe there will be many leads. It may incidentally occur. So, as far as IADN is concerned, I do not think they are getting that much leads now to begin with. But if I am wrong, doubtlessly some Alpha Developer - IADN member will chime in and correct me.

The work, in majority, is not going to come from the side of Alpha. It never has. It is not that simple.

[Rida Alhasan]

The Business End for independent developers: statistics!

.
Hi,
With over 330+ survey inputs, this a view of "us":


COUNTRY
US 61%
Europe 28% (UK 15%, Germany 7%, Netherlands 2%, Spain 1%, other Europe 3%)
Other 11%

CLIENT
- Internal 37%

1-50 employees company 6%
50-200 employees company 9%
200-1000 employees company 12%
>1000 employees company 10%

- Independent developer 63%

1-50 employees company 35%
50-200 employees company 15%
200-1000 employees company 7%
>1000 employees company 6%

BUDGET
- US dollar 1000-3000 22%
- US dollar 3000-10.000 63%
- US dollar 10.000-30.000 13%
- US dollar >30.000 2%

PLATFORM (on applications developed > January 1, 2009)
- Desktop (includes LAN) 30%
- Web 63%
- Especifically for smartphone 4%
- Other 3%

YOU
- Are an independent developer 72%
- Are in the company's payroll 23%
- Something else 5%



OK, you guessed it, I just made the whole thing up (please don't kill me, it's against the law plus I've got a mortgage to pay and the bank would be terribly unhappy if I "left"). But don't you think it would be helpful to have some hard data to know what type of client / type of work / market segment(s) we should target?



Regards,
Felix
.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

:-) You have a nice sense of humor Felix I like that.

Yes indeed, that would be handy. But it would also be handy if we got anything in life for free and that is not going to happen anytime soon either.
These figures (related to Alpha Five at least) you (and me) would like to have simply do not exist, or we (as developers) have no access to it.
They are not available in the public domain.

So, what have you thought out to get it anyway?
You would not just throw that out here without having a splendid solution to that question up your sleeve now would you?

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I believe that alpha has all the numbers and use that along with trends as they see them to go forward. Now, their numbers could get a bit muddled by people like me that gets the was and does not use it. That purchase could look to the like a count for the web. I am not using it. Taking a poll here would not get any kind of accuracy due to this being(I think) a very large part developers.

However, the web side and the desktop side could both benefit from a marketing study that would better help each of us to aim our efforts at our markets. We need to define the best type business/person that we may be able to serve a need for them. Further the Alpha brand?, Maybe. I am still out on that because it has never benefitted my needs. It never helped me sell a project. I have never wanted the client to go on alpha's site and download developer to mess up my work.

I am in favor of a group to try to help all to have a better understanding of the business processes, seo, advertising, etc.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

I have read a couple of times where you referred to a notary. Just to clarify: I live in Florida and was a notary for many years. The general job as a notary is to make sure the person signing a document is legitimate and to witness the signing. The document does not matter. I could perform a marriage according to law because is was still signature and oath related. I carried no weight to test and certify anything. Maybe the word Notary there is different?

Personally, I have no desire or need to be certified by alpha. IADN want to make sure you are capable of doing the work before you would be considered for any project. That makes sense. To some degree, that is certification.

Many years ago, I was a master mechanic and came up as apprentice, journeyman, etc. This day in time, you ceed to be ASE certified in each defined field such as engine, auto transmission, Interior, and so on. You get a certificate in each field. That does not mean you can fix a car, but you have a paper that says you passed the test.

Most everything alpha does is turned in to a more machine level to work. We have many places and ways to place code. Who is qualified to certify any of us??

[Ted Giles]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Correct Dave, pay per click is a good way of expressing it.
On the site I am camping out at and offering free software written in Alpha 5, I can easily put a hard link into the application so that anyone wishing to purchase the Alpha Five product can go straight to the site.
Doing that would be like wetting yourself in dark trousers - a nice warm feeling and nobody notices - especially Alpha Marketing.

Much as I'm banging on, I have spent that last 8 hours extracting data schemas from Toad and Excel and loading them into Alpha tables ( a LOT of table) where I can refine the analysis and do all the comparisons and table joins I want, to my hearts content. It is so easy with Alpha and I am really comfortable with the data manipulation side of things and am on track to recover a lot of lost time due to someone at my client trying the Access route.

Might not be the cutting edge of development, but it's a really good bread and butter tool to go data mining with.
The best thing of all, is that I can validate and prove the data relationships/values before the really serious and costly SQL validations take place.

I'm looking foreward to creating uploads to the SQL Server at the end of next week so that's something else to keep me busy.

If anyone in the UK is interested, the project is the data migration of OLM Care First to Liquid Logic Protocol.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I have read a couple of times where you referred to a notary. Just to clarify: I live in Florida and was a notary for many years. The general job as a notary is to make sure the person signing a document is legitimate and to witness the signing. The document does not matter. I could perform a marriage according to law because is was still signature and oath related. I carried no weight to test and certify anything. Maybe the word Notary there is different?

The function and powers of a notary may very well vary looking at different countries. In The Netherlands, the notary plays a role in many situations where someone is needed to guard that certain procedures are met correctly, like for instance at lottery ticket drawings. Of course they also have official functions (like transfer of property ownership). I have mentioned the notary, because they are well known as objective officials that could check and state, that procedures have been followed correctly to produce a certain outcome.
Third parties are more likely to place trust in objectively controlled certifications as they might be in "the butcher certifying his own meat".

IADN want to make sure you are capable of doing the work before you would be considered for any project. That makes sense. To some degree, that is certification.

True. However: an institution that has members and starts some kind of 'certification' to make some kind of 'statement' about the proficiency of its own members is likely to behave more in the interest of its own members as in the interests of the customer, who is no member and pays nothing to the institution. The customer knows that. What credibility do you think the customer places in such a 'certification' as long as no official or generally acknowledged certifications are involved?

Hence my thoughts and remarks about the notary: if IADN (as an example) draws up a list of criteria that any of its members has to meet, the notary could objectively state that indeed he has found that the requesting party of such a certification had actually met the criteria. As a result, he could state that in a letter that could serve as "certificate".
As is, you could draw up any list of the most wonderful criteria and still have no single member who ever actually met them. Nobody knows.

The comments were all made not against IADN, but in support of creating a more solid competitive position for Alpha developers against for instance .NET developers. Any edge we can gain on them will pay off.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

The comments were all made not against IADN, but in support of creating a more solid competitive position for Alpha developers against for instance .NET developers. Any edge we can gain on them will pay off.

Me too.

To let the people here know, My racecar program has reached a paid base of 162, my Free Veteran Diabetes has over 450 in the hands of users, my car lot app is at 29. Only a few were through the website, and then word of mouth, some advertising. I also negotiated many times on price. Remember that the veteran app is a no money situation.

THE ONE TRICK I follow is to write software within your field of expertise. I am a car person and racer. I know where to advertise with little or no money. I know mostly what the customer wants and needs. I know how the user thinks(pretty much). I would love to advertise the car lot app on autotrader.com/cars.com/and others, but that is a ton of money. They are only go at a pay per click and each click is a bunch even on the dealer side.

Sales is not a few select words or misdirection. It starts with knowledge of product and then explaining your product, knowledge of an industry and explaining how your product can benefit, then proper pricing with negotiation. I like selling cars and if the commission is big then wonderful, but a smaller commission is better than none. The largest problem I have seen with programmers is them making an application in an industry where their knowledge is limited to none. That is a recipe for failure.

Marcel, (NOT PICKING ON YOU but an example), if the market in the area you are working has dried up, did you sit down and look at other areas of your expertise that could use your skills? Please don't answer this to us, just yourself. Others can do the same.

My industry has not dried up. My biggest problem is getting the message out. I am not selling cars anymore, just making a few bucks on my computer skills. It is not easy, but I have a mean boss: ME!!!! I have diversified into web pages that are mostly small. I put an ad in craigslist that cost nothing, but brought some pretty good money. Many are sites that are almost identical with changes of names and colors, different pictures and stuff. Make a couple hundred for 2 hours total work and sometimes more.

I think Alpha may be in a similar situation with getting the word out that we do. It costs a lot of money. It costs a big car dealer roughly 450.00 a car in advertising to make it go away. I'm sure alpha has it pegged at how much it costs them per copy of their programs. If they open a new area for advertising, what can they expect in return.

Not sure if I said everything here politically correct and apologize for the long wind.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Dave, this is not about "markets drying up" and finding something else to do that pays the bills.
This is about improving your market position as an Alpha developer so your market won't dry up, and you will not have to look for something else.
Your situation might however not be quite comparable with others.

Furthermore, in Europe, we might have quite a different market position as you guys have in the US. Although I seriously doubt that: I don't see any job offerings for Alpha Developers in the USA as well. Do you? Now try the same for Access developers to start at the bottom at the list. You will find those on a regular basis. And stepping up on the professional ladder, you will find .NET, C++, C#, ASP.NET, Nhibernate, SPRING.NET and what not populating the registers of vacant jobs for developers.
In Europe, you will find NONE for Alpha Developers. Now, you can tell any story you want, on how you made your fortune with Alpha individually, or how you could sell applications using savvy salesman skills, and that might all very well be true indeed, and it might very well be working like a charm for you, but the fact that the business in wider sense is not asking for any Alpha developers DOES count for something: they don't need developers for it!

My whole point for this thread is my statement (reasoning from the facts stated above) that we already have a lagging start to begin with in competition with other development platforms who are widely seen as the "market standard".

So, if customers here have problems with accepting Alpha as your primary tool in your work, the question to ask yourself is: what can you do to eliminate that, or how can you balance this out. And the generic customers attitude against Alpha here is not solely based on a bias against Alpha: the community of Alpha developers here is EXTREMELY small, and customers might very well be worrying what to do when the Alpha developer they were in business with hits a train and does not come back. Who will follow up his work?

So, although I have mentioned the "certification" option through the notary as an example of what you could do, the real question in this thread is more what other options you could possibly invoke to get the upper hand in competition. Such as arranging an escrow service. And there may even be dozens of valid ideas and solutions more. Things you could arrange, or do, to improve the position you have as an Alpha developer. Joining forces as developers might very well be a good start, but there are issues with that which I see mostly in the area of customer acceptance were it to have more impact then (like Ted said) "drinking tea together".

Like Felix suggested, it would be great if we had figures/statistics about how the market is divided, and what our position as Alpha developers in that market is. But we have not, and although Alpha might very well have it, they are under no obligation to provide that to us and such could even work in their own disadvantage since they too have competition that can read.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I suppose that the difference between you and me is pretty simple.

I don't offer up that I am an alpha developer and try to find a spot for that alone. I have never seen an ad looking for that in any area except on this forum.

Clear up one thing though, I have made NO fortune with alpha alone, or with anything else.

I wish I knew how to help that position, but I have no magic elixir.

[jkwrpc]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

To follow up Marcel's point I just did a job search on Monster.com. There are no ('0') jobs for Alpha Five and well in excess of 1000 for MS Access. If, for the sake of argument, Alpha Five is so much better than Access, and I believe it is, then why are we the only chosen few working with it?

As independent developers what can we to do that will benefit us, while using a platform that has no demand. We need something to level the field, if such a thing is possible. I don't necessarily believe this is an Alpha Software problem as it much as ours. It seems to me certification, while nice, does not begin to tackle the larger issue of an IT community woefully unaware of A5. We need a game changer and I don't believe mobile computing will do it.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

To follow up Marcel's point I just did a job search on Monster.com. There are no ('0') jobs for Alpha Five and well in excess of 1000 for MS Access. If, for the sake of argument, Alpha Five is so much better than Access, and I believe it is, then why are we the only chosen few working with it?

As independent developers what can we to do that will benefit us, while using a platform that has no demand. We need something to level the field, if such a thing is possible. I don't necessarily believe this is an Alpha Software problem as it much as ours. It seems to me certification, while nice, does not begin to tackle the larger issue of an IT community woefully unaware of A5. We need a game changer and I don't believe mobile computing will do it.

Exactly.

[kkfin]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Monster.com

PHP 1000 +
Python 1000 +
Visual Basic 1000 +
C# 1000 +
and
Xbasic 0

[Peter.Greulich]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

There are no ('0') jobs for Alpha Five and well in excess of 1000 for MS Access. If, for the sake of argument, Alpha Five is so much better than Access, and I believe it is, then why are we the only chosen few working with it?

The answer is (of course) that Microsoft is a GIANT company with universal name recognition (yes, universal, even on Pluto they know about MS). So, of course, Monster has a thousand Access listings. Millions of companies use or have used Access. And if MS starts including Alpha as part of their Office Professional suite, in relatively short order there will be a thousand listings for A5 developers on Monster.

The other languages that Ken cites are platforms (not RAD packages) and are also universal standards, xbasic is not.

That's why.

[bea2701]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Exactly.

On her blog says Alpha Software "Mobile" is the future so this is the future strategy as mentioned as the notice given Alpha Anywhere is thus confirmed. Survive in this fast changing market is vital certainly is a fact that Alpha Software note hold that customers drop out but that happens in any business and is not exclusively for Alpha Software, a matter of opportunity and threat measured by the market "supply and demand ". I personally think the "desktop" is not dead and always needed, just try to type a letter in Word on an Ipad or try out your roof with 1000 mutations processing on a Windows 8 tablet, I say have fun!