The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

[Ted Giles]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I reply to some post using my I-Pod Touch, so using an I-Pad would be a breeze.
My new car has a Hard Drive - (and HD television) - installed, so I'll see if I can get the voice recognition to let me reply to posts using the built in features.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I reply to some post using my I-Pod Touch, so using an I-Pad would be a breeze.
My new car has a Hard Drive - (and HD television) - installed, so I'll see if I can get the voice recognition to let me reply to posts using the built in features.

You know what happened when Jeremy Clarkson played around with voice recognition in a BMW, don't you?

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Remarkable:
I just did some reading up on this forum, and found that there actually was a poll a long time ago when the web application section of Alpha began to pick up. The results were that about 80 percent of the developers who joined the poll thought, that Alpha Five should develop both the desktop and the web application functionality alongside and create a hybrid application. The other choice was to abandon desktop all the way.

So, Alpha Developers back then thought both sides should have their share of development resources.

Looking back though, you can't have it all seems the better note on this since the web side has been improved drastically, leaving the desktop with only minor attention.

We might have the same discussion now about Mobile: developers might go for the hybrid platform that offers it all, but getting a mobile section will mean that both the other sections will suffer from it: the desktop section once more, and for the first time even the web section may get less attention. You can't put your development hours in two things at the same time. Although that seems to be exactly what we want: a 33-33-33 percent effort on all three sections desktop-web-mobile.
I guess however, if you need to create a completely new product section, a better gamble would be that it will come to: 10-20-70. Which yet again leaves the desktop with only very small progress.

It is not a simple decision for Alpha. I can understand (but not necessarily agree) though they want to go for and secure "the future" as they see it.

[Ted Giles]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

You know what happened when Jeremy Clarkson played around with voice recognition in a BMW, don't you?

You ought to see it park itself!

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Just a reminder, with alpha, you can have both a desktop app and access it with a web app as well. I knew it, but just got a reminder when I red another thread.

why not be able to make a desktop app(using whichever db), and connect a web app to it and later ips, etc.???

It still does not answer the question about how to get alpha generated applications of any kind into the larger corporations. From all the rhetoric, there has been no clear cut or even vague answer that I saw.

Still the best should have been 20 years ago by alpha putting alpha into the schools(free if necessary). Their business would be(my opinion) 100 fold+++ and so would the developers. Do the math that alpha was free for students in only 100 colleges/universities and 300 students a year got used to it over 20 years.

[GGandhi]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

hello

Still the best should have been 20 years ago by alpha putting alpha into the schools(free if necessary). Their business would be(my opinion) 100 fold+++ and so would the developers. Do the math that alpha was free for students in only 100 colleges/universities and 300 students a year got used to it over 20 years.

may be alpha missed the boat then, but how about offering now at dirt cheap academic price for school id holders, and teachers with a restriction not for commercial use etc., like so many other programs do at a considerably lower price and no subscription. people might get interested in alpha five purely based on price initially and once they learn about its capabilities, word might spread around.

[Keith Hubert]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Hi Gandhi,

may be alpha missed the boat then, but how about offering now at dirt cheap academic price for school id holders, and teachers with a restriction not for commercial use etc., like so many other programs do at a considerably lower price and no subscription. people might get interested in alpha five purely based on price initially and once they learn about its capabilities, word might spread around.

Alpha have already been down that path. That suggestion was made to them before the internet existed.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I don't think making the product any cheaper for students will be the game changer. It will HELP yes. And I am all for it. However, people WILL abuse that option as I have personally experienced offering strongly reduced prices for applications to schools and educational institutions. They would violate the license agreement just as easily as anyone else even though they would be able to purchase at much less prices. But that to the side.

I think the biggest hurdle for corporate use is the proprietary character of both the product (characteristics of xbasic, the proprietary WAS) and of the company itself (small and uncertainty about business continuity planning).

Corporations don't want to invest hundreds of thousands of dollars in hours to build large applications that can be thrown in the bin as soon as the company that markets the development environment falls (which we hope will never happen).

So my best shot at what would help Alpha Five the most in penetrating the professional development industry, and what belongs on the to-do-list of Alpha Software, is to make an option that instantly exports your whole application to something that meets (or is) market standard. Others have done it, and succeeded with that. Grew exponentially in comparison with Alpha Software. It is doable I think, but needs full attention.

As I have said before, the "solution" of implementing yet again another development section (mobile) looks like some sort of "escape" to me to try and solve the market penetration issue. This however has not worked for the web application section (where they told the same thing) and it WILL NOT work for the mobile application section either, simply because expanding your field of activity does not mean that you will penetrate more into the market. This has other reasons that need to be attended to their own characteristics.

The above however is what Alpha Software could do. There is also an important issue to what WE could do. We can not tell Alpha what to do, but we can do things ourselves.
That is where this thread is all about: to find out what WE can do.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Keith,

It was tried then. It was a very limited basis at best. You can't just send out a brochure and offer half price+- for students when they know very little of it's abilities and the professors have no inclination to delve into it. In other words, I believe it was very poorly done at the best of it. Another problem they may have hit was the wide use of apple computers in the schools back then.

What I suggested then and still do is to give it free to the schools and at a very cheap cost to the students. It takes a little work and maybe some of our inclusion in the process. I would volunteer a day or two(even more) to trying to make a sale. Remember, it is sale that costs nothing. There must be 8 to 10 schools close to here. And why not high schools? All Alpha has to do is set appointments for one of us to show up. I believe anyone on this board can give a simple presentation of pure facts and field some questions. Make sure, it takes both alpha and the user community.

This is a long term plan and Agreed that furthering alpha makes alpha money, but it can make us money too. These teachers and professors work at other jobs in their off time and so do the students. That can get a few going before a year has passed.

On this - "Familiarity breeds a sale"

Alpha has already made version 11. Their startup costs are about over for the version. In other words, it is made - It costs about 10 cents to give it away, but if it brings 10 sales in a year there is a win. The upside is that my numbers should be multiplied by 1000??? Over a period of 3 years, that will grow exponentially.

I can't speculate on the possibilities in other countries, but I would bet a farm it would work.

Add this to what Marcel said above.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

One more thing, If alpha could fix this(alluding to what marcel said) was situation. I would buy the was in a heartbeat, if I could export the whole thing to a c#, C++ application/website and not have to rely on an extra server along the way.

the proprietary WAS

The proprietary word is the key.

What would your response be to walking into a corporate meeting and being able to say "My product is to be delivered to you in c# or C++"??? I also think this would take a great deal of work for alpha.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

I don't want to be a party-pooper here, but typically (at least in OUR country!) schools tend to put in their curriculum what company's need. For that, there is an ongoing contact between representatives of the educational institutions and business representatives. There is really no use at all to teach people something that the business world is not asking for. And in the end, time is an asset in educations as much as in business life: there is never enough of it. So, just as in corporate life, also educational boards need to make decisions. Unfortunately, in the area of programming, the business has other demands than Alpha Five. So I do not particularly believe giving the software away for free is the game changer here, besides the other issues I already mentioned. But that is just how I personally anticipate this problem, and I am not the sole holder of wisdom either as anyone knows.

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

One more thing, If alpha could fix this(alluding to what marcel said) was situation. I would buy the was in a heartbeat, if I could export the whole thing to a c#, C++ application/website and not have to rely on an extra server along the way.



The proprietary word is the key.

What would your response be to walking into a corporate meeting and being able to say "My product is to be delivered to you in c# or C++"??? I also think this would take a great deal of work for alpha.

If I could say: "I develop with Alpha Five and my product will be in 100 percent C# and it will implement into any .NET configuration with zero problems" yeah. THAT would change this HUGELY. Definitely.

[DaveM]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel,

I just expanded on your idea. Now, if you could talk to the boards on education and explain that the use of alpha is good to make the c# or other code for that business institution they consort with, would they accept that and put alpha into the equation for student study? I do not know your educational system over there at all.

[seaken64]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel, Dave, all

I'm not a developer so I am only following this thread as an interested by-stander. What would it take to do as you suggest, to be able to convert to a more standard format? And on the server side, what would it take to make the WAS run on a Unix, Linux or MAC box?

I am a small business and may not see the full picture of the corporate model. But, to me, I'm more concerned with my data, and less with the application. To be able to move my data into and out of applications is important to me. I'm not sure if this is the same in larger corporations. One of the things I like about Alpha is that it is fairly data file agnostic (although not as much as I would like). If Alpha Five stops working I can still open my data files and start using them with some other application.Now, it's true, I would have to redo the application and all the effort used in the A5 application would be lost. But I don't need anything special to get at my data, either is DBF, SQL, DB2, etc.

One reason I stopped using Quickbooks is because I couldn't get at my data. I had to pay for some special conversion program and the data still had to be massaged to use it in another application. No worries with A5. I can even open my data files with Open Office!

Is this not a feature of A5 that can be leveraged? You can assure your clients that their data will always be in a standard format and not locked into a proprietary format. Now, if the WAS was not locked in to Windows it would be even better.

Sean

[mronck]

Re: The Business End of Alpha Software for independent developers

Marcel, Dave, all

I'm not a developer so I am only following this thread as an interested by-stander. What would it take to do as you suggest, to be able to convert to a more standard format? And on the server side, what would it take to make the WAS run on a Unix, Linux or MAC box?

I am a small business and may not see the full picture of the corporate model. But, to me, I'm more concerned with my data, and less with the application. To be able to move my data into and out of applications is important to me. I'm not sure if this is the same in larger corporations. One of the things I like about Alpha is that it is fairly data file agnostic (although not as much as I would like). If Alpha Five stops working I can still open my data files and start using them with some other application.Now, it's true, I would have to redo the application and all the effort used in the A5 application would be lost. But I don't need anything special to get at my data, either is DBF, SQL, DB2, etc.

One reason I stopped using Quickbooks is because I couldn't get at my data. I had to pay for some special conversion program and the data still had to be massaged to use it in another application. No worries with A5. I can even open my data files with Open Office!

Is this not a feature of A5 that can be leveraged? You can assure your clients that their data will always be in a standard format and not locked into a proprietary format. Now, if the WAS was not locked in to Windows it would be even better.

Sean

Hi Sean.

If you are just looking at your data there are no worries: Alpha Five has this tackled since you can have your data nicely and safe put away in any SQL database which is the medium corporation standard at the moment. You can simply toss away your Alpha Five front-end (the application) but your data will still be safe in SQL. You could simply get back to work by placing another front-end and there you go.

Point is, not everybody thinks that way. Of course, your data is the most important, but in most cases the business processes are implemented in the application as well. Sometimes to the extend that those are almost as important as the actual data. Data processing can be extremely complex and tied in with many other datastreams and applications in a business.

Investment wise, most money does not go into data entry but into modelling, developing and maintaining the business processes.

Saying that it would be a problem solved if, by pressing just one button, any application could be ported to a market standard is easy. Realizing this is quite a different story.
You must remember, that for instance .NET is an object oriented programming language. OO (using instances of classes) is quite something different as flatout basic where you program linear solutions. The method behind it is very different, and so is the actual code (although the code is probably the least of problems).
Tackling this needs serious thinking and efforts, but may very well be possible. To this, just a small example.

Years ago we needed to communicate in XML. Alpha Five had no (almost none) native XML functions included. So what we in the end did, was export fixed text files that simulated being an XML file and put the variables with the actual content in it. Quit smart, and we could (for years really) be up there with the .NET guys easily. Just by being creative.

But from here behind the keyboard it is impossible to say whether it can be done or not as a fact. That must be researched, and that will cost. Hugely I guess. But should it be successful it will pay-off for Alpha hugely as well. That, I am sure of.